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Thursday, August 10, 2017

BST baseline... understanding what good is

  1. Boards
  2. Pokemon Ultra Sun
  3. BST baseline... understanding what good is
i wondered what you all considered as a baseline for good stats

Personally i think the following stats are/is considered good

HP: 90
Atk: 100
Def:95
SpAtk:100
SpDef95
Speed: 120

Speed has gotten higher considering how much the powercreep has happened... but
Official Infernape of every board
MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#2
clicked this topic ready to remind gamefaqs that bst doesnt nessecarily correlate to viability but this topic isnt about bst at all

without damage modifiers 125+ offenses is the baseline for good
garchomp and higher is enough to be considered fast
~TFS~
(edited 3 days ago)reportquote
asednopee122 3 days ago#3
are Pokémon BST even canon?

Cause, Magikarp is the world weakest Pokémon.

But there are Pokémon with lower BST then it, so BST can't be canon or at least accurate.
(edited 3 days ago)reportquote
ffdgh 3 days ago#4
120 speed will be too slow eventually if more pheromosas keep popping up.
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>100 offenses 
LOLOLOL
I liek Mudkipz
asednopee122 posted...
are Pokémon BST even canon?

Cause, Magikarp is the world weakest Pokémon.

But there are Pokémon with lower BST then it, so BST can't be canon or at least accurate.

Fun fact: 
The "speed" stat is really a measure of reaction speed, not top speed. It's how you have pokemon like Metagross that can use Bullet Punch, but which are kinda slow on the uptake.
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Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#7
ffdgh posted...
120 speed will be too slow eventually if more pheromosas keep popping up.

the average speed of all pokemon is 68 lmao
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Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#8
Primal_GroudonX posted...
>100 offenses 
LOLOLOL

What is manaphy, mew, jirachu,
Official Infernape of every board
Pink_Infernape posted...
Primal_GroudonX posted...
>100 offenses 
LOLOLOL

What is manaphy, mew, jirachu,

Mediocre offensively, that's what. 100 Base points in Sp/Atk isn't enough for a dedicated attacker to do what it needs to; 120 is really your baseline number for those stats.

Now, that said you can certainly have strong pokemon that have lower raw power, but those will be good because they're bulky or have good utility or (more probably) both, like (some of) the Base-100 Legendary pokemon. They might also have an ability that makes their real power higher than what is shown on paper.
Currently playing: Mario Maker, MG: Rising, Splatoon
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(edited 3 days ago)reportquote
MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#10
Pink_Infernape posted...
What is manaphy,

a mon with s*** offensive stats and a broken boosing move

Pink_Infernape posted...
mew

a defensive mon

Pink_Infernape posted...
jirachu

a mon carried by a bulls*** ability
~TFS~
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#11
the point was, pokemon like victini arent hindered by their supposed "mediorce" stats and do just as well yall as heavy hitterz


so 100 is a baseine..
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Pink_Infernape posted...
the point was, pokemon like victini arent hindered by their supposed "mediorce" stats and do just as well yall as heavy hitterz


so 100 is a baseine..

That is because it has super powerful attacks and coverage
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R E M O V E A N I M E A !
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#13
baseline*
Official Infernape of every board
MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#14
Pink_Infernape posted...
the point was, pokemon like victini arent hindered by their supposed "mediorce" stats

yes they are, offensively at least

Pink_Infernape posted...
stats and do just as well yall as heavy hitterz

do you think that maybe, just maybe, the 180 bp stab move might have something to do with it
~TFS~
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#15
excuses 

if someone has 100 $, they have 100$ 

Does not matter how they got it if we are measuring how much money they have

Or how they use it for that matter.

"But but <insert excuse here> carries this mon!!!!"
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Valfalk 3 days ago#16
in what universe is base 100 good
victini is my favorite case of a mon getting a f***ton of stupid broken moves and still sucking
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MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#18
thats like saying 80 attack is godlike because bone ghost has 80 attack and hits like a truck
~TFS~
not factoring bp in because that makes s*** like serperior hits as hard as aegislash the real standard for strong is starting at 130 without any kind of modifiers
EDragon Tempest reincarnation.
#FreeDragonRulers
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#20
Valfalk posted...
in what universe is base 100 good

shaymin, Victini, Celebi, mew, jirachi...hoopa?...idk 

But they are all really good
Official Infernape of every board
Pink_Infernape posted...
Valfalk posted...
in what universe is base 100 good

shaymin, Victini, Celebi, mew, jirachi...hoopa?...idk 

But they are all really good

lul
EDragon Tempest reincarnation.
#FreeDragonRulers
MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#22
tc if 100 is so good why do celebi and shaymin hedgeheg form suck
~TFS~
it is because they are grass sloth boy xD
EDragon Tempest reincarnation.
#FreeDragonRulers
MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#24
theyd be so much better if they were pure psychic like mew xD
~TFS~
(edited 3 days ago)reportquote
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#25
MegaMewtwoX posted...
tc if 100 is so good why do celebi and shaymin hedgeheg form suck

they dont...?

I mean, shaymin has a really good signature move and Celebi has so many sets
Official Infernape of every board
MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#26
Pink_Infernape posted...
MegaMewtwoX posted...
tc if 100 is so good why do celebi and shaymin hedgeheg form suck

they dont...?

I mean, shaymin has a really good signature move and Celebi has so many sets

lol
~TFS~
klinklang in bw had a super good signature move

this means it is good

SLOTH BOY BTFO
EDragon Tempest reincarnation.
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MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#28
eevee is good hype
~TFS~
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#29
DRulerLightning posted...
klinklang in bw had a super good signature move

this means it is good

SLOTH BOY BTFO

no gear grind is g a r b a j e
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Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#30
ok well

DRulerLightning posted...
Pink_Infernape posted...
Valfalk posted...
in what universe is base 100 good

shaymin, Victini, Celebi, mew, jirachi...hoopa?...idk 

But they are all really good


Are proof 100 offensive is the baseline for good
Official Infernape of every board
really makes you think when the mon with extreme bias for stupidly strong move and cover legend stabs has never been higher than BL in the only format where it can even be used
EDragon Tempest reincarnation.
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MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#32
tc is silvally good 
it has a super broken gimmick and pretty much 100 stats
~TFS~
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#33
MegaMewtwoX posted...
tc is silvally good 
it has a super broken gimmick and pretty much 100 stats

No bc its 95 not 100 aka not good as discussed

DRulerLightning posted...
really makes you think when the mon with extreme bias for stupidly strong move and cover legend stabs has never been higher than BL in the only format where it can even be used

they r all BL lol
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MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#34
Pink_Infernape posted...
No bc its 95 not 100 aka not good as discussed

wow, a marginal difference matters that much?
tell me what other mons are good/suck
~TFS~
mew and jirachi are bl :thinking:
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MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#36
tc is kadabra good
it has a whopping 120 surely it is an unstoppable offensive powerhouse
~TFS~
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#37
MegaMewtwoX posted...
Pink_Infernape posted...
No bc its 95 not 100 aka not good as discussed

wow, a marginal difference matters that much?
tell me what other mons are good/suck

if you need 100% in a class to be good, n you have 95% you aint good lmao

DRulerLightning posted...
mew and jirachi are bl :thinking:

no they arent in fake tier aka smogon 

they r banned from the REAL FORMATT

MegaMewtwoX posted...
tc is kadabra good
it has a whopping 120 surely it is an unstoppable offensive powerhouse

yes

As is Infernape, since they are above 100 hello do you not see the flaws in ur case... do you feel jow strong they r lol
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MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#38
kadabra is good
HYPE
~TFS~
abra is better than mew 

hype
EDragon Tempest reincarnation.
#FreeDragonRulers
Pink_Infernape posted...
baseline

Pink_Infernape posted...
baseline*

Pink_Infernape posted...
baseline

So 100 Attack is "good" but Starmie is slow?
(edited 3 days ago)reportquote
#41
(message deleted)
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#42
DRulerLightning posted...
abra is better than mew 

hype

no cuz mew is good in all stats
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MegaMewtwoX 3 days ago#43
lets make a list of red_emp approved good mons lol

kadabra
sandslash
vileplume
primeape
abra
machoke
machamp
victreebel
golem
rapidash
dodrio
gastly
haunter
krabby
kingler
exeggutor
hitmonlee
hitmonchan
rhydon
mr mime
scyther
jynx
magmar
tauros
all the eevees
omastar
kabutops
moltres
~TFS~
(edited 3 days ago)reportquote
does this make eviolite digis***ter null good

it has over 100 in defenses with that lol
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Trapinch
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#46
I am not red empo
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(edited 3 days ago)reportquote
Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#47
DRulerLightning posted...
does this make eviolite digis***ter null good

it has over 100 in defenses with that lol

No bc every else is subpar since it 95
Official Infernape of every board
Hbthebattle 3 days ago#48
TC is Mega Steelix good
Simple, Pokemon raised from level 1 are stronger. Stop being stick asses and maybe you'll get something for once.
Offenses:

120+ is good

HP:

90+ is good

Defenses:

90-100+ is good

Speed: 

120 is good
"I'm an atheist too but still believe in hell. That's where you're headed pal." - Mr_Karate_II
I haven't played in a while, but when I used to play:

HP: 108+
Garchomp will always be the gold standard for this. All of his bulk comes primarily from this. Excadrill too, at 110. Neither of them have supreme defenses, but having so much HP lets them take hits deceptively well. Especially for guys with so much speed and power.

ATK: 130+
You can augment attack really easy with stat buffing moves. But the best way is Choice Band for the instant power. Generally, the 130+ base attack Choice Banders got the job done best. CB Mence, CB Tar, CB Heracross, etc were all great. So I guess give or take 5 points since Heracross was 125 and Salamence was 135.

DEF: 125+
For some reason, better DEF has always been more valuable than better SP.DEF. Mainly because Swords Dance is way more accessible than Nasty Plot. Gliscor is my example for this one. He gets by on his DEF alone and its not uncommon for people to avoid running Roost.

SP.ATK: 130+
Same as ATK more or less. Latios and Gengar have been premiere Special Attackers, so I'll use them as examples. Specs Hetran was always a good pick too.

SP.DEF: 100+
Doesn't really matter, honestly. 100 base is a nice benchmark, but you can make less work with CM/Recovery Move, solid resists, and a lot of HP. Heatran's got 106 and Jirachi's got 100. That is usually good enough to get the job done.

SPEED: 111+ 
Basically enough to beat Gengar. Less speed can still be good depending on the other stats, but for something that wants to be fast, this is the minimum
(edited 3 days ago)reportquote
  1. Boards
  2. Pokemon Ultra Sun 
  3. BST baseline... understanding what good is
    1. Boards
    2. Pokemon Ultra Sun
    3. BST baseline... understanding what good is
    EazyE17 3 days ago#51
    LightningAce11 posted...
    Offenses:

    120+ is good

    HP:

    90+ is good

    Defenses:

    90-100+ is good

    Speed: 

    120 is good

    Except I consider 110+ speed good
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    (edited 3 days ago)reportquote
    Ku-Ri-Boh 3 days ago#52
    @asednopee122 posted...
    are Pokémon BST even canon?

    Cause, Magikarp is the world weakest Pokémon.

    But there are Pokémon with lower BST then it, so BST can't be canon or at least accurate.

    It's still the weakest because it can't beat those with lower BSTs than it, with 2 known mons so far in which both possess the movepool to confirm with the dex entry.

    BSTs are canon
    Nidoqueen is a large, bipedal, purple Pokemon with distinct reptilian features. It has narrow eyes, large, spiny ears, fur-like tufts on its cheeks, and a short
    Ku-Ri-Boh 3 days ago#53
    Pink_Infernape posted...
    excuses 

    if someone has 100 $, they have 100$ 

    Does not matter how they got it if we are measuring how much money they have

    Or how they use it for that matter.

    "But but <insert excuse here> carries this mon!!!!"

    Ok so you have 1000000 zimbabwean dollars. Tell me when you are relevant.
    Nidoqueen is a large, bipedal, purple Pokemon with distinct reptilian features. It has narrow eyes, large, spiny ears, fur-like tufts on its cheeks, and a short
    Pink_Infernape 3 days ago#54
    Ku-Ri-Boh posted...
    Pink_Infernape posted...
    excuses 

    if someone has 100 $, they have 100$ 

    Does not matter how they got it if we are measuring how much money they have

    Or how they use it for that matter.

    "But but <insert excuse here> carries this mon!!!!"

    Ok so you have 1000000 zimbabwean dollars. Tell me when you are relevant.

    I fly to east africa n use the cash there
    Official Infernape of every board
    Drakaiser 3 days ago#55
    Pink_Infernape posted...
    excuses 

    if someone has 100 $, they have 100$ 

    Does not matter how they got it if we are measuring how much money they have

    Or how they use it for that matter.

    "But but <insert excuse here> carries this mon!!!!"

    ITT: 1/45/30 bulk is godlike because Shedinja takes no damage from 80% of attacks.
    I liek Mudkipz
    MohShuvuu 2 days ago#57
    MegaMewtwoX posted...
    kadabra is good
    HYPE

    URI GELLER BTFO
    Failure as a human! Failure as a human!
    Nokocchi 2 days ago#58
    Pink_Infernape posted...
    Ku-Ri-Boh posted...
    Pink_Infernape posted...
    excuses 

    if someone has 100 $, they have 100$ 

    Does not matter how they got it if we are measuring how much money they have

    Or how they use it for that matter.

    "But but <insert excuse here> carries this mon!!!!"

    Ok so you have 1000000 zimbabwean dollars. Tell me when you are relevant.

    I fly to east africa n use the cash there


    You couldn't even by a gumball from a machine with 1,000,000 Zimbabwe dollars

    Due to hyper-inflation, at one point trading in 35,000,000,000,000,000 Zimbabwe dollars would give you 1 US dollar. Needless to say the country dropped the currency eventually and now uses US money, but you can buy a 100 Trillion dollar bank note for 10-100 dollars online(Its not actually worth that much, but most people suckered into buying it don't know that) and joke that you're a Zimbabwe trillionaire


    Anyways, to be more on-topic, I feel that due to stat creep, 120+ is good for offenses and speed, and 95+ is good for defenses and HP.
    (edited 2 days ago)reportquote
    gloomyguy 2 days ago#59
    If you dont have some crazy s*** like v-create 100 offensively is LUL
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    TIL only 9 VGC17 mons have good Speed

    Pheromosa 
    Jolteon 
    Aerodactyl 
    Crobat 
    Tapu Koko 
    Talonflame 
    Weavile 
    Ribombee 
    Alakazam
    (Minior, core only)
    1. Boards
    2. Pokemon Ultra Sun
    3. BST baseline... understanding what good is

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